The real story of Vivian Vance and Bill Frawley

I found a strange pictorial about Vivian Vance, Bill Frawley, and her real husband Phil Ober. It was published around 1957 -- at the end of I Love Lucy -- and talks about how she worked to keep "both" her marriages happy. It also paints her and Bill as friendly outside of work, with him regularly stopping by the Obers' house to socialize. And apparently Bill and Phil were friends, too.

I'd never seen this piece before. Did rumors about the animosity between Vance and Frawley leak or something? I thought she hated him. Was the studio behind this? Theories?

I remember reading that at one point Desilu wanted to spin the Mertz's off on to their own show once the weekly I Love Lucy ended. Eventually VV said no. I could imagine this story was when they were trying to get that idea rolling.

That spin-off would have ended in tears.

Maybe it was meant to distract from the unraveling Lucy-Desi marriage.

My marriage ... s weren't a walk in the park, r5!

Ahh..Loved me some Viv. Love a gal who gives me some great laughs.

BS

"Champagne for Everybody"

[quote]Desilu wanted to spin the Mertz's off

Oh, dear.

"HIs name was Bill Frawley and he spent his life carrying on a mad and passionate affair with showbusiness"

I didn't know that there were rent boys named "showbusiness."

Gee, based on this article I guess "the nurse" living with Bill Frawley when he died was Viv and Bill's secret love child

When Viv turned down the Mertzes spin-off, she was instead offered Guestward Ho! Phil demanded she convince Desi to cast him in the male lead, but no matter how much Viv pleaded, Desi refused. He knew the score.

Ober is best known to me for playing Deborah Kerr's dickhead husband in FROM HERE TO ETERNITY. He's great in the role.

[quote]When Viv turned down the Mertzes spin-off, she was instead offered Guestward Ho! Phil demanded she convince Desi to cast him in the male lead, but no matter how much Viv pleaded, Desi refused. He knew the score.

"Guestward Ho!" was based on a Patrick Dennis ("Auntie Mame") book. Viv only did the pilot; when it went to series her role was played by Joanne Dru (birth name: Joanne Letitia LaCock; she was Peter Marshall's sister.)

Was Frawley really gay, or is this just DL lore?

Phil Ober also played 'Dory Sherry' in the ILL episode Don Juan Is Shelved. I think he also played another, earlier character where he was Lucy's 'First' husband where she could win 1,000.00 (she was on a radio program - Females are Fabulous) if she could carry off the ruse until midnight. There was a knock on the door and he was Lucy's 'Second' 'First' husband (a bum showed up first w/Lucy thinking it was her 'First' husband). Anyway, he apparently had numerous rolls throughout the ILL run although I can only recall the two above.

Those were the only two roles they gave him, r17 -- and the Dore Schary part wasn't really planned. They knew he was abusing Vivian and weren't very willing to do him many favors.

Vance was very anti Frawley from the beginning. She didn't want them to hire him to play her husband because he was 22 years older than her and thought it would look ridiculous. From everything I've read their relationship went downhill from there.

And of course there's the old report that upon learning Frawley had died she said "CHAMPAGNE FOR EVERYONE!!".

[quote]Anyway, he apparently had numerous rolls

And here we thought that Viv was the one with the weight problem.

It bombed because they didn't cast me r21

r20, you truly deserve your W&W

[quote]And of course there's the old report that upon learning Frawley had died she said "CHAMPAGNE FOR EVERYONE!!".

Is this DL lore as well?

r25 That is most definitely NOT William Frawley.

OP, this is a "movie magazine" article, total bullshit.

R25 - that's hilarious that anyone could think that picture was taken in 1902.

I get Phil Ober and Fred Clark mixed up

Well I never in all my life r27!!

I just think the idea that Fawley was a twink is hilarious.

William Fawley was a twink should become a DL meme.

This purports to be a photo of the young Frawley.

I agree, r33. We need a new meme around here

r35 That is a photo of Chester Morris of Red Headed Woman (w/Jean Harlow), and the Boston Blackie series.

If anything screams 1902 it's R25's photo.

Phil Ober was the guy who got KNIFED at the UN in North by Northwest.

[quote] OP, this is a "movie magazine" article, total bullshit.

What?! Oh, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Those magazines are always truthful.

I think Frawley was born looking old

Bill's youth occupied the time before photography had been invented.

The funny thing is, I don't think Bill or Phil were particularly happy

^ I hear Viv abused both men, hence their unhappiness

I read it in a Movie magazine

I read it in the encyclopedia Britannica.

I read it on a gum wrapper.

Bette Midler and Peter Boyle were supposed to do “Here Comes The Mertzes” after Everybody Loves Raymond ended.

Someone -- maybe Jess Oppenheimer? -- claimed the Vance-Frawley feud has been overblown.

r45 did you read it in MRA Magazine?

Guestward Ho is going to be my new drag name.

I wonder if the book on which Guestward, Ho! is based is any good.

^^^ apparently it was co-written with Patrick Dennis

Phil Ober was the murderer on The Ghost and Mr. Chicken.

What was the premise of Guestward Ho?

And who played the Ho?

Per IMDB:

[quote]Babs Hooten, husband Bill and son Brook escape the frantic pace of NYC, buying dude ranch Guestward Ho in New Mexico. Their neighbor is Hawkeye who gives them bad advice he wants the Indians to reclaim the land if the Hootens fail.

In the pilot with Vance, I think the couple was childless.

So, basically a fish out of the water premise?

Yes, r58

It would have been fun to see Vance in her own show, but it never would have worked.

Green Acres did the same premise years later with great success

Viv was no Eva Gabor, r60

Poll on what, r62? Who hated whom more?

The Dore Schary episode was written to include a cameo with Schary playing himself. At the very last minute he had to drop out. Ober was there, not busy, knew everybody including cast crew, writers and directors. That's probably why he was asked to fill in. There was not even a delay. Dore was short for Isadore.

[quote]Ober was there, not busy, knew everybody including cast crew, writers and directors. That's probably why he was asked to fill in ...

... begrudgingly, I'm sure. No one like him at Desilu.

How many zillions of baby boomers grew up knowing the name Dore Schary only because of ILL?

TCM had a middle-of-the-road short subject featured of MGM's 25th anniversary, featuring Lionel Barrymore and Dore Schary. It was quite interesting to watch--90% of the new movies they were promoting for the upcoming year are probably all but forgotten today.

I meant middle-of-the NIGHT, not -road.

Very interesting, r68. Thanks

I feel like Lucy broke character a bit during the Dore Schary episode ... like her annoyance with "Schary" was really annoyance with Ober that she didn't bother to conceal

Bill Frawley was closeted, right?

Wasn't he married earlier in life?

This is a real picture of Frawley earlier in life

Like Ellen Corby, William Frawley always looked old.

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